Ironsights/Crosshair.

[Hugo.B]

I saw a croshair in one of the screenshots in the gallery, and was surprised.
I shouldn't be, but I have been playing True Combat: Elite (It has no crosshair) so much recently, that I kind of had this idea that HaJ would be sans crosshair.

Tell me what you think. I would like to know how many other crosshair-less games there are out there, and whether you play one.

[Pierog]

err...

[Ginger Lord]

I like the crosshair, makes games more accessible to the masses and generally keeps things moving along at a fair pace.

Rather than everyone in a corner with ironsights up waiting for someone to pop round the corner.

Nothing to say we won't have both in the mod however.

[Pierog]

what really is the question for us is...

what is more realistic... and having crosshairs is, since in reality you know exactly where you're aiming at, and it doesn't translate well into the video gaming world so crosshairs help.

[fess]

So... what exactly are your plans for xhairs/iron sights, can you let anything slip?

[Ginger Lord]

Well at the moment every gun has a crosshair (each type has a different style, the SMG's are big circles) and the melee/grenades don't have any.

It works quite well but we may stick ironsights on the rifles for longer range shots.

Depends how testing works out.

[fess]

Sounds interesting, I like the idea of different xhairs for different weapons. Are you considering only giving certain weapons iron sights? I think they all should if any do...

[Ginger Lord]

It would depend on the weapon, giving a SMG ironsights would be pretty useless imo.

The accuracy and damage would be so bad trying to line up shots at distance, its designed for CQB where a crosshair is of good use. I doubt anyone in reality in a CQB situation would bring up their sights over just firing from the hip/shoulder/whatever.

[Hugo.B]

Firing from the hip you don't need ironsights, you would only see the top of the gun or whatever you would see in R.L. But from the hip in RL you would have a good idea where your shots would land, that is why I think they put crosshairs in games.

[Wile E Coyote]

Coming from practical experince in weapons of this nature....

To be perfectly honest with you, submachines and pistols are "point and shoot" weapons. In real use, both your eyes are open and generally speaking you are pointing the weapon at your target and firing until it drops. Period. Any engagement under 50 meters, EVEN RIFLES, using sights actuallly becomes a liablility - it becomes a quick-draw situation, the first to bring up his weapon, point and fire is usually the winner. Taking time to aquire the sight picture will just make you dead. This is really hard to translate well into gameplay. I honestly think COD did it correctly; you have the option to use the sights, which make the gun more accurate, but
A) they are not necessary to win an close-quarter encounter
B) they take valuable seconds to attain (not instant) and make you move slower (you cannot attain a sight picture and runat the same time)

[Hugo.B]

Well said and a good enough argument for me.

[MaRzY]

Hello to all, and especially those that might know me....:), hope all is well.


Since leaving the good old DOD days behind, after DOD:S came out, i went on to play other FPS, i found myself playing COD UO alot, though not default servers, but modded realism servers. One of the server i ended up playing on more and more was run by a clan called Ceal. There was no crosshair, and at first i got owned, but the thing that kept me going, was it reminded me of what first attracted me to earlier DOD releases, the good team play, but most of all it was a challenge just like those beta DOD days, being a steep learning curve. After much time i started holding my own, and for me, it has to be the best online FPS experience so far. I think that one of the things that kept the game flowing, was the animation of the shouldering of iron sights was fast, it really seem to work well. Unfortunately COD2 came out, and everyone including me jumped ship, though i soon found out (3 minutes) COD2 was far too arcade for me, and even the modded realism servers don't cut it for me. So i found myself looking for something else, but because now im use to playing without a crosshair i turned to RO. After much time again, I'm now good at RO, but I'm not into tank maps, and just like the infantry ones, so this limits things, as the community is very small, and my local servers only rotate all maps.

Anyway getting back on track, i guess what I'm trying to say is like anything, after much time of doing the same thing one becomes good.

I know i'm in the minority, and this is probably down to being an old fart and playing years of games with crosshairs, that i welcome the no crosshair thing. Although it has to be said, that for me shooting someone through iron sights, or being taken by surprise and shooting a snapshot from the hip and downing your target, is far more of a rewarding feeling, then using a crosshair.


I understand though, that one good reason to add a crosshair to any FPS, is to appeal to the majority, and why not, i know being a modder, that releasing something that gets well used by a community is very rewarding, and i for one wish you the Team the very best on that.


Though have you ever thought about maybe adding a server side option to disable the crosshair, giving peeps the choice of joining a server that suits there style of play. I mean why try and please the majority, when you can try and please everyone.

Another idea that came to me, was what would a game play like that had iron sights but no crosshair, apart from when you was within 15 to 20 meters of the enemy, and your weapon has to be pointing inline with an enemy hitbox, that only then would your crosshair shows up on the target.

[Jed]

Hey Marz, still driving the white van? :D

To be honest mate, if you're looking for that kind of stuff, HaJ isn't going to be for you. I personally have no intention of adding server side options for turning stuff on-and-off as it leads to an inconsistent playing experience.

Adding stuff like that you end up trying to become all things to all comers.

We're not going for an "arcade" game, but we're focusing on simple fun uncomplicated gameplay where the focus is on team work and the realism comes from historical accuracy in terms of maps and missions.

[Sam]

I always saw the crosshair as just something that gives the player better perspective of your actual line of vision as first person view is quite constricted. Your technically a cyclops in-game because your focusing your two eyes on the one monitor and playing without a crosshair would be like running around with one eye closed. I think it's really just making up for that aspect so it's not really taking away from the realism but sorta granting you actual two-eyed human perspective, in-game, if you know what I mean (I don't).

[spine]

I absolutely agree with that Sam, only thing I like about iron sight is the time it
takes to get the gun up in sight. With crosshair you kinda run around with the
ironsight all the time.
But I like Jed says simple fun uncomplicated gameplay is what we aim for, then we will see what that leads to through testing.

[Jed]

Actually it's be discussed before but some of the weapons may well be ironsighted. As has been said before, we're not planning on adding snipers to HaJ and with the rifles being predominantly a long-range weapon an ironsight mode for them might be of benefit.

Again, this is stuff we put in the "R&D" slot meaning we'll get to it when the important basic stuff is done. No point putting a couple of hours into writing ironsights when you don't even have the basic weapon code 100% finished!

[MaRzY]

The white van experience was short lived, after doing 12 hour days, and getting peanuts for it, there where to many middle men taking a cut, so i told them to find some other mug, and that was that....lol.


I would not say HaJ might not be for me, because if HaJ has good game play and teamwork, then the game might well attract me, as these are the two main things i look for in a game. Theres also the fact this game is based on the Commonwealth, which makes me feel like swinging from the rafters.....:).

So i'm not ruling it out just yet Jed.:), after all most games I've played over the years have had no ironsights and just a crosshair, and DOD was my number one for years, until it went retail, so theres hope yet.....:).

[Faceman]

Was that the FREE CANDY van?

[newmodel]

I like how it is in dods your gun's in a rested state until you bring it up by either firing or aiming through iron sights. I don't mind having the smg be without the ability to aim, but at least have the origins be placed so that it doesn't look like it's firing from the hip or to the far right.